How to Win the War Against Tyranny- Interview with Pam Popper
Make Americans Free Again, led by Pam Popper, is fighting to preserve American freedoms and has a proven strategy that ensures we can win
They are launching strategic legal challenges across the U.S. Rather than arguing the unconstitutionality of mandates, they challenge the legal basis of the emergency declaration that allowed the mandates to be rolled out in the first place
They also teach Americans everywhere how to start and build their own local parallel societies where members take care of each other and work toward the same goal
The short-, medium- and long-term goals of Make Americans Free Again are to free Americans from government tyranny, address all medical mandates and, ultimately, design and launch a superior medical system
Even if you don’t start your own freedom group, consider making a donation to Make Americans Free Again’s legal fund
Pam Popper is the president of Wellness Forum Health and cofounder of Make Americans Free Again, which plays a significant role in the fight to help preserve American freedoms. An important part of that task is building a powerful community and, as noted by Popper, “COVID has brought some people together who probably should know each other better,” and that includes us.
Popper and I are aligned with respect to our desire to educate the public about fundamental health principles, including foundational basics for preventing and treating COVID-19.
We are also in agreement that the COVID pandemic is a cover for something else entirely — a global takeover by powerful and profit-hungry interests. And finally, we both agree that participating in protest marches and signing petitions doesn’t really achieve much, and that there are far more effective strategies, as she has demonstrated.
“The background on the situation is my company, Wellness Forum Health, is about 27 years old, and our niche is informed medical decision making. In other words, we don’t tell people what to do. [We teach people] how to make decisions about health the way they make decisions about cars and houses and retirement accounts and other things that are important to them …
Now, the medical profession has become the Wild West. Medical journals are filled with inaccurate information. So, we added … rules for filtering evidence, and we teach people the rules. The rules are things like: Conflicts of interest have to be considered.
We have to understand the difference between a correlation, and a cause and effect relationship, [and] something that is statistically significant but clinically meaningless. You get the idea.
If you’re looking at a lot of information, you have to filter it based on rules, just like you have to play football based on rules … So, for 27 years, I’ve been talking about the problems in health care, which is [that] nobody abides by any rules. There isn’t any informed decision making. Doctors tell people to do things and they say, ‘OK, that’s called consenting.’
But that’s not consenting at all, in my opinion. And so, a lot of my research really was based on [that], and the books I wrote revealed the incompetence of big medicine, big food, big pharma, some of the criminal intentions, and that this [the COVID scam] isn’t new, it’s just a bigger version of it.
The second week in March of 2020, I knew what this was because I had covered fake pandemics in the past. There was one in the 1950s, there was one in the 1970s, another one in 2009. These are just the big ones that got a lot of attention. So, I knew what this was. I do some business in China; I knew what they were up to.
So, I put out this very controversial . I didn’t think it was going to be controversial. I was just reporting the news, which I had done on video twice a week for [years].
Instead of the usual few dozen responses, I got 3,500 responses to this video and they included death threats and hysteria — ‘You’re going to be responsible for killing people’ — the whole 9 yards. And I thought, wow, this is just something else. So that’s how this all started.
If you go back and watch that original video, I said that this took place in China, they did it deliberately, that they had reasons and motivations for doing this, that this was a fake pandemic and the end game was forced vaccination. It was a 15-minute video, but that was the bottom line. And unfortunately, it turned out to all be true. I wish I’d been wrong about it.
As [the pandemic] went on, I just kept doing more and more research, posting more and more videos. And at some point, probably late spring or early summer, I realized the breadth and depth of this whole thing and knew that they were never going to stop, and we had to do something about it. That’s when we formed Make Americans Free Again.”
One of the primary ways in which Make Americans Free Again is fighting the tyranny is by filing lawsuits against mask and COVID jab mandates. She explains:
“We have three branches of government, and the executive branch — with very few exceptions, for example, Ron DeSantis in Florida — has gone completely rogue. They now operate as emperors and empresses, rulers over their people. So, you can’t deal with those people. The legislatures up until recently have been fairly useless.
The only reason they’re doing anything now is really to protect themselves, in my opinion, not because they’re looking out for people. So, you have one branch of government left, which is the courts. We [knew] we were going to have to use that in order to a) get our freedoms back and b) go after these people for what they did, which is committing fraud and hurting and killing people.”
By early summer 2020, a slew of lawsuits had been filed across the U.S. Unfortunately, it was highly uncoordinated. People weren’t thinking things through. There was no cohesive strategy, and that was their downfall, Popper says. She estimates some 6,000 lawsuits have failed in court, causing many to give up on the judicial system as well. Not Popper, though.
“We’ve been winning in court and I’ll tell you how in a minute. But it is better to stop, think and [then] do something. Less activity, more deliberately performed, is a better idea.
Interestingly enough, I heard from this lawyer in Florida who had made the same observation as me. This hurry up and file strategy isn’t working, so why don’t we look at these lawsuits and figure out what they’re doing wrong? And this is very, very important for anybody listening to this who just wants to hurry up and file.
What people were doing was filing the lawsuit against the government saying, ‘You are violating our constitutional rights.’ And you know what the government would say? ‘Oh, we know we are, but we don’t have any choice because it’s an emergency.’ And then the judge would rule in the government’s favor.
We filed the very first lawsuit challenging the emergency declaration itself in Ohio, accusing our governor of fraud. We said, ‘There is no emergency. You declared this fraudulently, and therefore all the actions that you’ve taken are not warranted.’ And the thing that I think people don’t realize, not living in Ohio, is that we were the model state.
People think it’s California [or] New York, but we were the first to shut down, first to close the schools, first to cancel events, first to close bars and restaurants. Why is that? Because the criminals behind this needed a very popular conservative governor who could do well on Fox and CNBC and MSNBC. Every Sunday, our little criminal was the toast of the Washington shows. He was so responsible, taking care of his people.
By the time we filed our lawsuit on August 31 , we knew a second shutdown was coming. By this point in time, we had some intelligence coming from government employees and that sort of thing. We never got locked down a second time.
We won when we filed, because we avoided the second lockdown. I think that the people behind this told the emperor, DeWine, ‘Let this alone, don’t do something that would make this judge just snap his fingers and order discovery.’ So, we didn’t get a shutdown.
The other thing that happened is there was virtually no enforcement of the restrictions that were left in terms of gathering limits and that sort of thing … Because of that, we thought, OK, this is a good strategy. So, we started doing more of it and we filed several lawsuits in several states.
For those people who don’t have confidence in the court, first of all, look at some of the lawsuits that have been filed. They’re bad ones. If I was the judge, I would throw them out too, because the judge can’t make law. The judge has to go with what the law says.
The second thing is that there are bad judges and bad courts, but our strategy has been to file with a coordinated legal team, because the most important thing they want to avoid, and we’ve seen this in every lawsuit, is discovery, because discovery is where we get to depose Mr. Fauci; discovery is where the CDC has to give us the documents. I don’t need them 36 times. I need them one time and then the whole legal team gets them.
One judge in the United States of America someplace is going to give us discovery. I can’t talk about where, but we think that’s in the process of happening right now in one of the court cases, and then everybody will [have that information].”
Cases Make Americans Free Again have won include one in which they represented the New York City police. They won an injunction until trial on the COVID jab mandate for the police force. In Florida, their attorney won a lawsuit against the City of Gainesville, which was implementing a “vaccinate or terminate” policy.
They’ve also seen general changes in behavior as a result of these and other lawsuits. “We’ve put the criminals on notice that now judges are watching, so everything you do is subject to being hauled back into court and saying, ‘Look at what these people are doing.’” Popper says.
Across the U.S., they’re challenging the emergency orders, demanding the state prove there’s an actual emergency afoot. So far, none has been able to provide any evidence that COVID-19 is a public health emergency. Instead of proving an emergency exists, state defense lawyers have spent all their energy on motions to have the cases thrown out.
In Ohio, Popper feels they have been successful by applying pressure on the governor through the courts. DeWine converted the Ohio State Fair to a virtual event, and it appeared that he was planning to restrict or cancel big summer events. But in what many people considered a surprise, he lifted the emergency declaration and made Ohio a free state. We’ll never know, but it might have been because our case was still pending in court. We then withdrew it because we got our way.
Popper is also planning to make some still yet unrevealed announcements. “We’re getting ready for some really wonderful first of the year surprises for the criminals in charge,” she says, “so stay tuned.”
Of course, they’re now trying to convince everyone that Omicron is a lethal threat, hence the emergency powers must remain in place, but even in the absence of a clear threat — as many now see through the fearmongering — they’re likely to keep pushing for more restrictions, vaccine passports, mask mandates and everything else. As noted by Popper:
“They don’t seem to require any justification for anything, they just do what they want. We’ve degenerated to living in a completely lawless society where people get up every morning and decide what they’re going to do, much the way that communist leaders and totalitarian dictators do.
I mean, our government resembles more the government of China or North Korea than it does what we used to have. So, I don’t think that they really need to justify the emergency use authorization. If they decide they’re going to do it, they’ll just do it, and they’ve stopped giving reasons.
To that point, I thought it was very interesting when Rochelle Walensky, the head of the CDC, said, ‘We’re going to cut the quarantine back to five days because that’s about all we can get people to do.’ So, in other words, our new policy is as much tyranny as the public will swallow.
She also made a stunning admission that their research showed that the compliance with quarantine was less than 30%. That goes to what I’ve been saying all along, which is that the resistance is much bigger than most people realize.
This is certainly what I’m experiencing building our organization. They do a great job of making it look like everybody’s on board, but everybody’s not on board. And I still contend that the vaccination rate is very, very low. I think they can’t even get to 60%. It was under 50% last summer. I was able to prove it with their data …
The compliance rate has been exaggerated and it was all a mirage to try and get people to say, ‘Well, if everybody else is doing it, I’ll do it too. It must be OK,’ because at that point in time, last summer, people didn’t know a lot of people who’d been injured or died. I think everybody knows somebody who’s been injured or died from this now.”
The number of parents refusing to jab their children is also a clear majority. According to Popper, parents have taken their children out of schools that mandate the COVID jabs, and some schools have had to reverse course as a result. Case in point: The Los Angeles school system dropped the COVID jab requirement when they realized they had 30,000 unvaccinated students and if they all left, the whole school system would cease to exist.
We have a strategy that means we win at stuff. We don’t take on things that don’t result in winning … You save a business, you win. You get a kid out of school, you win. You raise money and file a lawsuit, you win. Winning is what we need for people to feel good. ~ Pam Popper
“Even The New York Times covered a school in Brooklyn that had eight teachers with nobody to teach,” Popper says. “That’s the level of resistance.” Meanwhile, media are trying their best to make it seem as though compliance is high across the board. She recounts one example, where a local paper claimed compliance with the mask mandate was nearly 100%, when wherever you went, the vast majority were maskless.
“So that is the level of propaganda. All you have to do is walk into a store and know that there is no compliance. And then the newspaper, obviously, that was a preprint sent to them a long time ago, [telling them that] at such and such a time, you’re supposed to publish this. It’s just laughable.”
Building Community and Parallel Societies
Popper has also made great strides in community building, which I believe is a crucial strategy for safeguarding our freedoms in the long term. This was a natural outgrowth of the legal work. They realized they needed a lot of people to contribute funds, so they needed to connect with people who were willing to pitch in to save our freedoms.
“We had the first meeting in my office last summer and there were five people there — me and two people who I work with, and two guests. And so, we agreed to do it next week, and those two people brought people. And something happened that I did not plan. I’m going to be very honest about this. I’d love to tell you that I preconceived all of this and then acted on it.
But people would come into the meeting and they would have that shell-shocked look — like my church is closed, my neighbor’s not speaking to me, I’m realizing what’s going on with my kids, it’s ridiculous. The organizations I used to be involved with, they don’t exist anymore.
And so now they’re starting to make friends, and people who have their kids at home are starting to connect with each other, and all this kind of stuff. And I had this epiphany one night. The No. 1 thing these people don’t want us to do is congregate, which means the most important thing for us to do is congregate.
So, that was the beginning of building not only the body of people it would take to fund what we need to do, but what I call the Make Americans Free Again parallel society. A year and a half later, we now start a new group every three or four hours in the United States. I’m not kidding. They’re all over all 50 states. They’re everywhere.
Here’s the way this works. It is a parallel society, so, the first thing is, everything you need, you can get your group. People found out that there were churches that didn’t close, because none of this gets advertised. You try to stay under the radar screen. So, churches that were not closed, you could go there and you didn’t have to wear a mask.
People found doctors, dentists that didn’t make you wear a mask … So, we lived a parallel life. During the worst of everything in Ohio, our people lived a pretty normal life. We had a fundraiser with 400 people when the gathering limits were 10, because we knew where to do it. One of the members of our group owned a place where we could do it.
People have also found new jobs … It is a very much cloistered society where we do business with one another. We homeschool our kids together, we pool our resources to fund these lawsuits, our social life is together.
We did this program called Small Business Rescue where we would support businesses in our community. The government doesn’t have any plan for these people, so we buy local, we support them. So, it is a parallel society.”
Make Americans Free Again societies are also looking for and finding doctors who are operating cash practices (so they’re not reporting to or taking orders from anybody) and who will provide early treatment for COVID.
“So, everything you need, you get from your group … and I can tell you right now, I can say this with a great deal of confidence, if I needed something, a place to live, if I didn’t have any food, if I needed money, if I needed medical care, if I needed a job, you know where I get that?
From my Thursday Group and the Thursday Group network. [Editor’s note: It’s called Thursday Group because the group meets on Thursdays.] This is what is missing. If this had all been in place [before the pandemic], they could never have done this to us. They took advantage of the fact that society’s quite fractured, that you don’t have these local connections.
People beat me up sometimes a little bit. ‘Why won’t you let people have Zoom meetings?’ Here’s why. If we need to save a business in Worthington, Ohio, somebody in Portland, Oregon can’t help us do that. You can’t eat at this restaurant every week and support them. It has to be local, local, and it has to be in person.”
In the interview, Popper describes the many homeschooling benefits and successes members are reporting, which is profoundly encouraging. Overall, the community building, the parallel structures being created across the U.S. give her an optimistic outlook on the future. They’re proof positive that the whole takeover agenda is backfiring on the technocratic deep state.
“I’m optimistic with a qualifier,” she says. “I always want people to understand that I understand the gravity of the situation. If you have a spouse in the hospital right now who’s being slaughtered with ventilators and remdesivir, my rosy prognosis might strike you like nails on a chalkboard.
I want people to know the reason I get up every morning — the reason I invest so much of my own money and time, and I’ve risked my own life to do this — is to make that right.
Having said that, with that disclaimer, my outlook for this year is really positive and optimistic. The reason I say that is [because] we have a quantifiable enemy. We know what they’re up to. I am watching them scramble and fail. There is only one reason why they would be issuing all these edicts and Biden would say something like, ‘I’m losing patience’ … is because they’re not getting their way.
I think the best example of that is the CDC walking back the recommendations on the quarantine, because we just can’t get people to do it. It’s a stunning admission really to the public. So, I think this is going to be a year when this goes away.
Even the Israeli government is saying we’re going to make everybody get a fourth shot, but maybe we’re just going to have to let everybody go out and mingle and get some herd immunity. There is an awakening of the government that they need to change course …
I like an enemy that’s on the defensive. It’s gone from the offensive to the defensive. That means, and I’ll give you another caveat, that there are probably more horrifying things in store as they flail about and try to hang onto their power.
A couple things I’ll recommend. Scott Atlas was a speaker at our conference this last year and he’s the former adviser to President Trump. He wrote a book called ‘A Plague Upon Our House.’ It’s a horrifying book, mainly because he reveals the stupidity and ineptitude of people like Fauci and Birx.
Atlas told us that Fauci can’t even pronounce medical terms properly and Birx doesn’t understand statistics. Most eighth graders have a better grasp of math than she does. What people like that do is they flail about when they are failing because they don’t have the skill set to do anything else … So we’re going to see some of that kind of behavior, but at the end of the day, this time next year, I think we will be in an entirely different situation.
A lot of our freedoms will be restored and a lot of the nonsense will go away. Then it just is a matter of spending the rest of our lives, just like we’ve done with the Nazis, tracking these people down and making them pay for what they did. And believe it or not, last fall, they were trying a 100-year-old Nazi in Berlin for what he did. So, it’ll be the same thing. We’ll be looking for them in South America, in China and every place else to bring them to justice.”
How to Start Your Own ‘Thursday Group’
For liability and other reasons, Make Americans Free Again cannot connect you with already existing groups. You have to start your own, which is what they teach you. Popper explains:
“It’s easy. We provide everything you need. My email address is email@example.com. You can email me. I hold conference calls every week during which I share our entire strategy and tell people how to get started working with us … Get engaged with us, donate money if you can.
Do what you need to do to keep yourself in a positive frame of mind, and starting a group and gathering a group of like-minded people is important …We can go from having felt quite powerless to being the most powerful people in the country, if we’re smart about it.
You start with one other person. People forget, I’m leading a group with hundreds of thousands of people, but it started with two guests. So, you just start with somebody who sees things the way you do. We give you a meeting format. We have training programs for our meeting leaders.
We have meeting leader conference calls every other week. We have a meeting leader coordinator in the office … Every Thursday, we send out the update, what the agenda is going to be, here’s the video you’re going to show, so nobody has to spend all day researching what am I going to talk about. We follow the same format every week, so we make it as easy as possible. And that’s how you start.
I heard a lot from people when this all began, ‘I don’t know anybody and it’s too hard, this is outside of my comfort zone.’ The longer this has gone on, the more people have said, ‘What’s going on is so far outside of my comfort zone that starting this group seems like it’s easy by comparison.’ So, I promise you, if you do this, we’ll support you in every way possible, and you can’t mess it up if you just follow our format.
We have a strategy that means we win at stuff. We don’t take on things that don’t result in winning. For example, I don’t have any particular objection to petitions and declarations, but I haven’t seen them solve this.
The Great Barrington Declaration got half a million signatures and tens of thousands were doctors and well-respected health professionals. It did nothing. Great statement, but it doesn’t change anything.
The biggest protests in the world are in Germany and Australia. Take a look over there, that doesn’t change anything. Protests are great for people to get together, but when you promise people that it’s going to make a difference and it doesn’t, it demoralizes them.
We have people who are demoralized. They need to feel like they’re winning, and when people come to our groups, what they see is winning. You save a business, you win. You get a kid out of school, you win. You raise money and file a lawsuit, you win. Winning is what we need for people to feel good. Getting them involved in more stuff that results in failure, not so good. So, we’re really focused and disciplined.”
I really encourage you to consider creating your own Thursday Group. To do that, send an email to Popper at firstname.lastname@example.org and ask to be added to her weekly conference call.